On Schadenfreude, Bigotry, and Job Interviews

Image description: A male of pallor is shown in a workplace meeting, making their melanated colleagues highly uncomfortable.

One of my favorite things in the world is watching bigots being outed by the public, losing their jobs. I have no issue with hateful Karens and Chets losing their jobs after their beliefs are shared with their employers by people in the community. But while I love allowing the schadenfreude to wash over me like a gentle autumn rain, I can’t help but think about the one party in these matters that is never held accountable: the companies that hire these people.

I’ve been recruiting and interviewing people for over 20 years. I’ve conducted hundreds of interviews and led dozens of recruitments. Please believe that Karens and Chets don’t suddenly wake up one morning and decide they want to be hateful people. They are and have always been hateful people, and it comes out in their job interviews. The way they answer questions, the way they show up in spaces. The red flags are always there.

And companies hire these people anyway.

I can count on my fingers and toes multiple times how often hiring managers and department heads have willingly ignored red flags around hate and bigotry and pushed someone through a recruitment process because they “really like them,” are “a person I’d grab a beer with,” or they “remind me of myself at that age.” Why?

Because it’s easier to ride with the comforts and familiarity of white supremacy than it is to take a stance and not bring people into your organization that pose a risk to your employees and the people you serve.

It has been proven that people hire people with whom they feel comfortable. Bigots, or people who are comfortable with bigotry happening in front of them and not calling it out, hire bigots. Chets and Karens hire other Chets and Karens. It’s white supremacist workplace culture 101. And it’s never a workplace issue until that bigotry gets attached to the company name in a public way.

Chet and Karen have been doing and saying horrible things at work for years. They’ve been reported to HR and their supervisors for their harmful words and actions for years. But as soon as their hateful nonsense spills out into the public in a way that gets them screenshotted and recorded? Then it’s an immediate dismissal and a well-written PR statement touting how the company doesn’t support these views and cares about equity and inclusion. Meanwhile, everyone who has had to work with and be harmed by Karen and Chet every damn day for years has to sit with the learned understanding that their company has never really cared about equity and inclusion and has no issue with gaslighting their employees around supporting these views.

Be mad at Chet and Karen. Be glad that they’re getting their comeuppance. But save some of those side-eyes for the jerks that employed them in the first place, who now want to absolve themselves of their responsibility in giving these people a paycheck.

[Image description: A male of pallor is shown in a workplace meeting, making their melanated colleagues highly uncomfortable.]

This Week's Opening Thought: August 11, 2025

This week's opening thought: I understand the issues that people have with HR and their criticisms of HR "professonals." I get it. I work in HR and I have the same issues with the industry, its practices, and many of its practitioners. The issues and criticisms many of y'all have are valid. But I want to add something to the conversation that a lot of people don't recognize:

Some of y'all are a WHOLE DAMN HOT MESS.

BRUH.

I have SEEN and HEARD some things at work, y'all, and I am NOT OK.

At least once a month, I see or hear something that someone has said or done at work that makes me wonder about the future of humanity. I have witnessed some horrible people in action, some who have been so heinous that I wouldn't be surprised if I saw them on a future Dateline episode. I've had the displeasure of investigating some heinous, hateful, exploitative, racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, ableist situations and interactions and watching in horror and exasperation as all my work and strong recommendations to remove those people from the workplace get thrown in the garbage like someone mimicking Michael Jordan with a wad of paper. Real talk?

It's scary, frustrating, and leaves the people who've been harmed and those trying to support and defend them feeling disregarded and defeated. And it does nothing but add to the narrative that HR folx don't want to help you.

Look, some HR "professionals" are not in the business of helping you. We can all agree on that. But believe me when I say that some of us do want to help you. We are trying, y'all. TRY. EENG. But we're basically swimming upstream against the current in shark-infested waters while getting knives and rocks thrown at us. If it isn't organizational culture and white supremacy it's labor laws that are structured to be manipulated for loopholes because of how vague they are. We're catchin' it from all angles while trying to support and protect people.

Some HR "professionals" deserve the reputation they have. But sometimes? Sometimes people are raggedy, systems are raggedy, and the solutions are raggedy because they're non-existent or neutered to the point where they do more harm than good due to the places we work and the laws we're governed by.

I'm surprised Lester Holt ain't said some of y'all's names yet.

On Safety and the Were-Douche

Safety isn't a given in any workplace environment, especially when you add in the number of degrees you are from being a heterosexual, cisgender person of pallor. And it's definitely not a given in any environment in our society.

And there is no dichotomy that exists between how things happen at work and how they happen in your neighborhood, down to whose safety is prioritized and whose safety is a concept of a plan.

It ain't like Bob from Accounting is a great human being when he's not at work but somehow work "brings out the worst in him." He's not a were-douche who only transforms into a creature that harms and harasses human beings Monday through Friday from 9:00 am - 5:00 pm. Nope - Bob is a crappy human being EVERYWHERE, and he's given passes and protection by systems and white supremacist culture and societal norms EVERYWHERE.

Work culture is societal culture. Period.

Let's not tell ourselves otherwise.

[Image description: a snapshot of Pam from the classic sitcom The Office. She can be seen saying, "They're the same picture."]

Image description: a snapshot of Pam from the classic sitcom The Office. She can be seen saying, "They're the same picture."

Image description: A picture of a cute brown dog giving its owner the side-eye. The picture is captioned, "Me watching members of the interview panel talk to an interviewee about how diversity, equity, and inclusion mean so much to them and the company when I'm on the HR team watching everyone who isn't at the intersections of being white, cis-presenting, able-bodied, and championing white supremacist ideologies leave the company for the same reasons."

BRUH. Don't even invite me to be on the interview panel. That kind of foolish decision-making will only make it harder for both of us to get through the interview.

My side-eye is always unhindered.

I'm amazed at how many interview panels I've been on in my career where interviewers try their hardest to talk about the company like it's the dawn of a new day, often while people who have recently been harmed by the company's culture and its emissaries are expected to smile and talk the place up. Like, I get not wanting to sandbag the company. I get it. But the number of lies interviewers often tell in interviews to avoid having to be remotely honest about things not being 100% copacetic are the reasons why so many folx from unserved and melanated communities job hop so often.

It's why companies have horrific retention rates.

It's why most companies are unsafe places for so many people to work.

And it's why many workplaces focus so hard on the spin rather than legitimately doing better.

It's easier to sell harm if you gloss over it with bells, whistles, and fallacies to check a recruitment box.

I feel fortunate not to be part of interview panels at this juncture of my career. I used to tell people exactly what they were getting into, y'all. No joke. And believe me when I say that I've paid for not being willing to contribute to someone's harm. Financially, emotionally, mentally. But I just couldn't shut up in those moments. I couldn't watch people make the mistakes I made in joining these dangerous environments for a paycheck.

I had a white cis female supervisor once who said to me that I needed to be willing to allow others to make their own decision on employment, even if they were walking into a harmful culture. Any faith I had in her flew out the window and exploded like a released dove into the engine of a passing airplane. I had shared my concerns with her about this for a year, watching the revolving door of melanin and queer identities come and go. Her advice was not to get in the trenches and address the matter but to shoulder shrug and play along.

Suffice it to say I stopped sharing much with her at that point.

I'm glad I'm not placed in that co-dependency space anymore, but it doesn't make knowing people who look like you are entering potentially harmful situations feel any better.

Pro tip: If you feel the interview panel is telling you what they think you want to hear, please take the hint if you can. You deserve not to be walked into a trauma trap.

[Image description: A picture of a cute brown dog giving its owner the side-eye. The picture is captioned, "Me watching members of the interview panel talk to an interviewee about how diversity, equity, and inclusion mean so much to them and the company when I'm on the HR team watching everyone who isn't at the intersections of being white, cis-presenting, able-bodied, and championing white supremacist ideologies leave the company for the same reasons."]

On Conflation and the Universal Workplace Experience Myth

There aren't enough people willing to comprehend and admit that just because they feel safe and supported at work doesn't mean everyone feels safe and supported at work. This goes double for the place you currently work.

Just because you're having a good time at work doesn't mean everyone you work with is having a blast.

There is no such thing as a common or universal workplace experience. And if you think there is?

You're conflating your experience as the only experience that matters.

You also might need to evaluate your relationships with white supremacy and “professionalism” and the perks your lack of melanin or willingness to engage in homogenization or assimilation to erase your skin tone provides.